Title:
Do grades reflect learning?
Convener:
Irwin Noyes
Participants:
R. Dlugosz
D. Hutchinson
J. Avianantos
M. Griego
B. Fahey
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Discussion:
- Wish we could do away with the structure and just tell people we're
going to do some learning here, if you're interested come on over.
- What do we even mean by learning?
- Are we talking about degrees of learning?
- In occupational programs, students can take certain tests to demonstrate
that they have certain competencies.
- In some disciplines students can't learn 60% of the thing; they've got
to learn all of it, or they won't be able to move on.
- Tying the written test to grades doesn't necessarily work because being
able to regurgitate information in a test doesn't necessarily mean the
student has learned anything.
- Integrating courses is a good way to foster true learning.
- Teacher expectation affects learning.
- Attitude impacts teacher and student.
- Grades do not represent a consistent level of learning across the
country, within schools, within districts, etc.
- Environment has a lot to do with learning.
- It's a terribly complex issue.
- In math, self-paced learner is learning best, according to measured
competencies. Does the appropriateness of self-paced learning depend on
the discipline? There is a college in Nebraska that does everything this
way.
- Articulation is a problem when you try to do modules that represent
partial completion.
- Grades represent towing the line.
- Grades are not the issue.
- You can make grades represent real learning if you can figure out a way
to recognize real learning.
- The question is can we figure out how to recognize and measure real
learning? Can we respond to what we know about how students learn? Maybe
we ought to change the way we try to teach them, use more appropriate
technology, teach them in the way that they can learn.
- How to make your subject accessible to students with disabilities.
- What are we really accomplishing when we juggle things around to
accommodate students with disabilities so they can learn as well and
equally to other students.
- There are things that matter that you can't really grade and maybe you
shouldn't grade, but they matter in the preparation of people for the work
world.
- Can't really teach "heart", and can't really grade prospective teachers
on their "heart", but it still matters tremendously.
- If you ask students who's the best teacher on the campus, how will they
respond? What criterion will mean "best" to them?
- Cultural sensitivity training of nursing students: can teach students to
understand other cultures. Question is can we and should we grade that?
Maybe we ought to recognize and accept the fact that there are some things
we can't teach and can't measure. When you are responsible for preparing
prospective teachers, or nurses, or crucial professions of that kind, you
need to measure some of those personality/affect things.
- Great minds in the past learned through dialogue with their masters;
that system worked. But we couldn't do it now, because there are too
many. Because the system won't pay us to work that way. Because their
learning won't be recognized in the real world.
- If you don't give students grades, they have trouble getting on in the
real world.
- There are schools that don't give grades and their students are
accepted. Interviewed groups of students to find out how they prepared for
test, to discover best ways to study. The learning style that matches the
teacher is the one that will get you good grades.
- Is there a way of studying/learning that is suitable for a particular
discipline? The fact that the natural sciences still do labs suggests
that there are certain things that have to be learned in this way.
- The multiple intelligences theory is relevant: people in similar
disciplines tend to have similar kinds of intelligence. Shouldn't put
students into a preferred learning style box and leave them there. They
can learn to learn in different modes, and add different learning styles
to their repertoire.
- Student as teacher is important in community colleges.
Open Space Forum - 03.05.99 - Scottsdale Community College
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